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 Post subject: "What is a Fundamentalist?"
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 2:03 am 
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A long but interesting article.....lest we forget where we came from:

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In the interest of clarity, let me affirm that I do, indeed, make a distinction between Christians and fundamentalists. In short: I have no issues with Christians.

Fundamentalists, however, are a different kettle of fish. Fundamentalists:

a) have identified a set of beliefs or practices as "fundamental." Fundamentalists draw a box around a set of core beliefs, defining these as essential. (If you point out the absurdity of this conclusion by asking questions such as, "But isn't everything God said essential?", you will not be allowed in the fundamentalist clubhouse.)

b) make their fundamentals a "test of fellowship." If you embrace a fundamentalist's fundamental beliefs, you're "in." If you reject anything on the list of fundamental beliefs, or add to that list of fundamental beliefs, or question the validity of having a list of fundamental beliefs, or question the authority of those who defined the fundamental beliefs, then you're "out."

c) see the world in black and white. The fundamentalist viewpoint is a perspective of extremes. Issues are black or white. Actions are right or wrong. Information is true or false. You're saved or damned. You're with us, or you're with the terrorists. This approach provides fundamentalists with quick and easy formulas they can apply to religious arguments, but it also limits their ability to deal with the complexity of the real world.

d)mistake their own conclusions for "absolute truth." While passing along their personal convictions, beliefs, and verdicts (usually without having been invited to do so), fundamentalists will often say, "This isn't what I think; it's what God plainly says." It would be more accurate to say, "These are my own conclusions as to what God has to say about the matter," but saying so would call too much attention to the fact that any "Truth" a fundamentalist preaches is, in reality, nothing more than his or her own opinion about what that Truth might be.

e) acknowledge human imperfection, but reject the idea that their own conclusions are subject to or limited by that imperfection. Fundamentalists pay lip service to the idea that "no one is perfect, but God," but, ironically, they are supremely confident that their own conclusions are not subject to such imperfections. Fundamentalists prefer to ignore the reality that every human's level of (or lack of ) education, humanity, and intelligence necessarily influences his or her ability to understand God's will, because embracing this fact would force them to admit that all conclusions -- including their own -- are imperfect to some degree.

e) position themselves as completely objective mouthpieces of God's point of view. Fundamentalists love to quote Scripture, because doing so fuels the fantasy that, "I'm not speaking; this is just the Word of God!" In doing so, they rather conveniently ignore the part they play in selecting, interpreting, and applying a passage of Scripture to the situation at hand.

f) claim God's authority for themselves. The delusion goes like this: "Since I have a perfect (or, at least, adequate) understanding of God's will, and since, when I quote Scripture, God is talking, then what I say and what I do is what God would say or do; therefore, when I speak or take action, I do so with Divine authority." This is a pretty convenient delusion, especially in arguments, allowing fundamentalists to claim that anyone opposing them or their conclusions is, in fact, opposing God.

g) have a passion for external expressions of faith. These externals simplify the task of distinguishing the sheep from the goats. The sheep will conform to standards of behavior specified by the fundamentalist leadership: attending a certain number of services, engaging in certain public displays of faith, adopting certain political agendas, obeying rigorous dress codes, performing elaborate rituals. Goats won't.

h) promote ignorance in order to perpetuate their beliefs. As a world view, fundamentalism can't bear much scrutiny. As a result, fundamentalists actively oppose education and discourage critical thought. As one Dean of Education at one Bible College once told me, "Christian education is not a matter of teaching students how to think ... we're here to teach them what to think." This approach has an added benefit for the leaders of fundamentalist groups: the more ignorant a population is, the easier it is to frighten and intimidate, and the less likely its members are to question authority.

Fundamentalism, frankly, is spiritually, psychologically, and mentally poisonous.

Because they are always one step away from the transgression that will nudge them across the line that divides saints from sinners, fundamentalists live a life of constant fear and self-doubt. Because their fantasies of righteousness set inhuman standards of perfection, fundamentalists tend to conceal or suppress their flaws, creating a culture of mistrust, shame, and secrecy. Because they are immersed in a culture that freely distorts or disregards information that calls the status quo into question, they lose the ability to engage in logical, rational dialogue.

Because fundamentalism holds that any opposing point of view must be held by someone deluded, dishonest, depraved, or evil ("Otherwise, they'd agree with God and me!"), fundamentalists do not hesitate to suppress critical thought, trample personal freedoms, or turn their religious conclusions into legislation designed to force non-believers into compliance.


Not all fundamentalists are Christians. There are fundamentalists in Islam and Judiasm. There are fundamentalists in the New Age movement and in Paganism (America's fastest-growing religion, by some accounts).

Not all Christians are fundamentalists. There are, in fact, many Christians who, because they are aware that their perspectives are necessarily limited, readily embrace others with radically different points of view. Many Christians are willing to live by their own moral standards, respect the standards of others, and allow God to sort us all out as God pleases.

I'm opposed to fundamentalism with every fiber of my being. Christianity, though? Not a problem.

LINK


Comments?

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 Post subject: Re: "What is a Fundamentalist?"
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:28 am 
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Location: Member #240 in the Foothills of the Spice-laden Mountains.
Must have been written by a Christian.

Christians believe that accepting Christ as your Savior is the only way to avoid hell.

That's as Fundamentalist as you can get.

It's that simple. To pretend that you are a Christian but not a Fundamentalist is silly.

They are the same thing.

In this they set themselves apart from all other religions.

The word "Fundamentalist" is useless when discussing Christianity and we should simply abandon it.

Christians are Fundamentalists.

Pax!
8-)

_________________
"I don't want to go among mad people." Alice remarked.

"Oh, you can't help that." said the Cat. "We're all mad here."

--Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-glass


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 Post subject: Re: "What is a Fundamentalist?"
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:17 am 
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The Real Logos wrote:
Must have been written by a Christian.

Christians believe that accepting Christ as your Savior is the only way to avoid hell.

That's as Fundamentalist as you can get.

It's that simple. To pretend that you are a Christian but not a Fundamentalist is silly.

They are the same thing.

In this they set themselves apart from all other religions.

The word "Fundamentalist" is useless when discussing Christianity and we should simply abandon it.

Christians are Fundamentalists.

Pax!
8-)


Logos, what about the Christians who consider themselves "liberal"? I don't think any of them believe in the "accept Christ" rule.

You've obviously been thinking about this topic......please tell us more about how you arrived at this conclusion. It may be one of those Logos epiphanies. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: "What is a Fundamentalist?"
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:03 am 
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The Real Logos raises an interesting point. It does seem that just BEING a christian necessitates fundamentalism, in that the identifying trait of a christian is believing the sacrifice of Christ and in it's saving power...which then necessitates that this is the "right" or "only" way to be saved.

I have seen and met christians who are very benign and accepting (which I definitely prefer over most of the groups that I have been involved with), but I would assume that when push comes to shove that they would say that Christ is "the only way."

Hm.

I DO think that evangelicals generally tend to be MUCH more dogmatic than other christians, but that's a WHOLE other discussion (dogmatism) that transcends this particular discussion...

-Dan

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 Post subject: Re: "What is a Fundamentalist?"
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:56 am 
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.
.
Rather than an epiphany......I think it's just in the way you look at things.

And I tend to look at things with brutal honesty.

The Liberal Christians who want to cling to the name "Christian" are simply being dishonest with themselves.

If you don't believe "Christ" is the only way to heaven......why call him "Christ?"

If you just call him "Jesus," then the name "Christian" is not valid.

If he's "Christ" then he IS the only way to heaven (or to avoid hell).

If he's NOT the only way......he's not "Christ."

But the Liberal Christians are reluctant to give up their old and comfortable ways (and friends, etc.) ......so they cling to their "Christianity," even though it makes no sense and is obviously contradictory.

And how can they continue to ignore the increasingly obvious fact that the "Christ" concept was invented by Saul/Paul??

Some will figure it out......some won't......some will just refuse to figure it out.

Pax!
8-)

_________________
"I don't want to go among mad people." Alice remarked.

"Oh, you can't help that." said the Cat. "We're all mad here."

--Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-glass


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 Post subject: Re: "What is a Fundamentalist?"
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 12:10 am 
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I'm so much a fundamentalist as to reject completely the Greek Testament nonsense and rely on the book that I was told to read during my Near Death Experience. Where the Greek (mal)version accords with it then all well and good but when it creates its own pagan god/man version and then declares "Comply or die" then company is parted.

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 Post subject: Re: "What is a Fundamentalist?"
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:07 am 
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Posts: 441
The Real Logos wrote:
.
.
Rather than an epiphany......I think it's just in the way you look at things.

And I tend to look at things with brutal honesty.

The Liberal Christians who want to cling to the name "Christian" are simply being dishonest with themselves.

If you don't believe "Christ" is the only way to heaven......why call him "Christ?"

If you just call him "Jesus," then the name "Christian" is not valid.

If he's "Christ" then he IS the only way to heaven (or to avoid hell).

If he's NOT the only way......he's not "Christ."

But the Liberal Christians are reluctant to give up their old and comfortable ways (and friends, etc.) ......so they cling to their "Christianity," even though it makes no sense and is obviously contradictory.

And how can they continue to ignore the increasingly obvious fact that the "Christ" concept was invented by Saul/Paul??

Some will figure it out......some won't......some will just refuse to figure it out.

Pax!
8-)



Logos, darned if you ain't just full of surprises. :o And.. I totally agree with your post.


ps.. "paperdots" is dead and buried. I figured this new forum was a good enough time to do away with that past participle, so to speak. :D


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