Karl wrote:

This false ecumenism is strongly condemned and rejected by all good catholics.

So, it DOES matter what you think?
But, you said it DOESN'T matter what you think.

So, good Catholics can reject this?
But, you said they should submit to the church's authority.

You're undermining your own arguments.

Pope is wearing the old mitre of the accursed Dagon Fish God -- One of the most obvious symbols that Roman Catholicism is just ancient accursed Satanism dressed camouflaged as Christianity is this ridiculous Satanic Dagon mitre. Who is Dagon, you might ask, and what is his mitre? Let us examine a couple of sources for our explanation, beginning with the Bible.


And the lords of the Philistines gathered them together to offer a great sacrifice unto Dagon their god, and to rejoice; for they said, Our god hath delivered Samson our enemy into our hand." [Judges 16:23]

God then made it quite clear that Dagon was just a false, empty, powerless god!



"They took the ark of God into the house of Dagon and set it beside Dagon, their idol. When they of Ashdod arose early on the morrow, behold, Dagon had fallen upon his face on the ground before the ark of the Lord. So they took Dagon and set him in his place again. But when they arose early the next morning, behold, Dagon had again fallen on his face on the ground before the ark of the Lord, and his head and both the palms of his hands were lying cut off on the threshold; only the trunk of Dagon was left him. This is the reason neither the priests of Dagon nor any who come into Dagon's house tread on the threshold of Dagon in Ashdod to this day. But the hand of the Lord was heavy upon the people of Ashdod, and He caused mice to spring up and there was very deadly destruction and He smote the people with very painful tumors or boils, both Ashdod and its territory. When the men of Ashdod saw that it was so, they said, The ark of the God of Israel must not remain with us, for His hand is heavy on us and on Dagon our god." [1 Samuel 6:1-7; Parallel Bible, KJV/Amplified Bible Commentary]

How terrible is it that "His Holiness", the Pope, wears a Dagon fish head mitre? He is glorifying the same weak, powerless, dumb, blind idol god that the True God of the Bible cursed and destroyed, only to then turn around to deliver such a painful retribution upon the people and the land of the Philistines? The Pope is wearing an accursed Dagon mitre! This one symbol should be enough to convince the right-minded, sober person that the entire Roman Catholic system is accursed, because it has resurrected ancient Satanism in many forms, not the least of which is the Dagon Fish Mitre.

But, before we leave this subject, we need to learn a few more facts.



A. "Dagon -- Little fish; diminutive from dag = a fish, the fish-god; the national god of the Philistines (Jdg 16:23). This idol had the body of a fish with the head and hands of a man. It was an Assyrio-Babylonian deity." [Easton's Illustrated Dictionary]. Dagon is Babylonian in origin. Truly, Revelation 17 is right when it calls the church of the False Prophet "Mystery Babylon".

B. When you examine the picture, above, you will see various representations of the way in which the Dagon Mitre was worn. At the far left you will see a Dagon priest wearing his mitre, sprinkling holy water with one hand while holding the container of such water in the other hand.

C. The picture in the upper right shows two Dagon priests sprinkling holy water while looking upward to an Egyptian symbol of Sun Worship

D. This picture to the left is of the Goddess Cybele in her Dagon Mitre sprinkling holy water. Cybele was worshipped in Rome and was called the great queen mother goddess. Some scholars say the Basilica of Saint Peter actually stands upon the former site of Cybele's main temple. [http://www.fortunecity.com/greenfield/bp/890/dagon.html ]



The term, "Queen Mother Goddess" is directly equivalent to "Queen of Heaven". It is highly likely that the Virgin Mary may have been taken from the Goddess Cybele, especially given the usage of the mitre and the location of St. Peter's Basilica on the former site of Cybele's main temple.

4. Pope John Paul II is holding up a Satanic Cross to the multitudes of adoring faithful during one of his many celebrations during his tenure. What intrigued me first about this picture is that the Pope is aiming the Satanic Cross directly at the Satanic obelisk sitting in the middle of St. Peter's Basilica! All these tens of thousands of faithful Catholic adherents are bowing down before a symbol of Antichrist (Twisted Cross) without realizing it in the least! This scene will be repeated so often during the time of the Great Tribulation and will produce scenes like this one, described in prophecy:



"... and all the world wondered after the beast. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast?" [Rev 13:3-4]

Unfortunately, it will not be enough for a person to be zealous for their religion, if that religion is not the true religion of Jesus Christ, pure and undefiled by "doctrines that demons teach". Many Catholic people will object to this, for they feel so adamant about their religion and they are very desirous to be close to the Lord Jesus. However, the Bible clearly teaches that a person must worship Jesus according to correct knowledge, or they are not saved. Listen:

"I bear them witness that they have a certain zeal and enthusiasm for God, but it is not enlightened and according to correct and vital knowledge." [Romans 10:2; Parallel Bible, KJV/Amplified Bible Commentary]

How do we know if we are worshipping God according to "correct and vital knowledge"? We must depend upon a literal reading of the Bible, and we must reject any man-made traditions or doctrines! We must certainly reject any and all doctrines, rituals, and practices based upon Ancient Satanism. All these pollutants to the worship of an individual will keep you from God and may very well keep you from entering Heaven.

How much polluting doctrine or practice must a person allow before they reject that religion? The Bible calls such pollutants, "leaven". List to the Apostle Paul warn us about accepting "leaven".

"About the condition of your church your boasting is not good; indeed, it is most unseemly and entirely out of place. Do you not know that just a little leaven will ferment the whole lump of dough?" [1 Cor 5:6; Ibid.]

Therefore, a Catholic must carefully consider the truckloads of Satanic doctrine that various Popes and Councils have brought into the church for the past 1,200 years or more. We speak to this complicated subject in our "What Saith Rome" section, and encourage you to read the articles carefully. If you study this subject carefully and with an open mind, you will know that you must leave the Roman Catholic Church; and you will finally know why priests have been sexually abusing their parishioners for over 800 years!
http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1865.cfm

It's been interesting for an unbeliever. Mainly because it is such a complete demonstration of varying religious beliefs, a true "my way or the highway to hell" and each side's unwillingness to listen to the other's ideas; a need to copy-paste humongous amounts of stuff that embraces their ideas and (hopefully for them) totally destroys the other side. And amongst it all, I find it difficult to see any logical thinking that disects the claims and looks for truth. So it's a confirmation (to me) of where I think...unbelief.

Neither side has admitted the horrors of the ideology they support. Popes with crusades and Inquisitions. Martin Luther with his equal-to-vatican hatred of Jews. Protestantism and their own, again dittoing the Vatican, on killing so-called witches. Nor even admitting that the King James of the KJV bible is the same one who burned alive a woman for the heinous crime of trying to help ease the pain of another woman's childbirth.

Instead of fighting with each other, why not try to logically, intellectually and truthfully, argue against what all the non-believing types expose. But use facts instead of opinions. Truly answer the folks that ask why God won't heal amputees. Provide a reasonable (and loving) reply when someone asks whether Muslims, or Buddhists, or whatever (or my sheep herder in Tibet), will go to hell because their parents never indoctrinated them in Christianity/Jesus (and especially since you all can't even agree on which branch of that)! Provide something beyond an intellectual copout comment when someone refers to a child being molested or the Holocaust or the Tsunami and asks, "where was God?" -- "God moves in mysterious ways" or "We don't always know God's reasons" just don't cut it.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if all the agnostics and atheists and unbelievers and wonderers could read your posts, all three of you, and come to a shattering discovery that you all agreed and were absolutely correct. One God, one religion, one belief, one truth, that your God was so all-knowing and all powerful that he wrote ONE BOOK that told it all and was always there to answer ANY question from anyone in the world, and then inspired scribes the world over to simultaneously write His Word for everyone. We would all embrace your faith, and your faith would not be what is described as closing one's mind to truth and believing in something that you can't prove.

Surely your God(s), and your religion(s), being true and all-powerful, could come up with that very easily.
Yes?/No?
===================
In 1591, a lady of rank, Eufame Macalyane, sought the assistance of Agnes Sampson for the relief of pain at the time of the birth of her two sons. Agnes Sampson was tried before King James, condemned and burned alive on Castle Hill in Edinburgh.
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/lewis/lewten43.htm
===================
On the Jews and Their Lies -- In the treatise, Luther wrote that the Jews are a "base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth."They are full of the "devil's feces ... which they wallow in like swine,"and the synagogue is an "incorrigible whore and an evil slut ..."He argues that their synagogues and schools should be set on fire, their prayer books destroyed, rabbis forbidden to preach, homes razed, and property and money confiscated. They should be shown no mercy or kindness, afforded no legal protection, and these "poisonous envenomed worms" should be drafted into forced labor or expelled for all time. He also seems to advocate their murder, writing "[w]e are at fault in not slaying them."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_Their_Lies
==================
Witches and their persecutions.
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/salem/witchhistory.html
==================

why God won't heal amputees.
http://www.healingsandmiracles.org/physicians.htm
He does!!!!!
To be asked why God doesnt grow back someones limb or limbs is a very tough question to answer.
And when asked why their not healed.......well, you could say that they are.
Whats better? To have a leg thats shattered beyond repair and perhaps die of an infection, or to have it removed and live?
Satans job is to kill and destory. While he might cause you to loose a limb, he couldnt take your life, thats something to think about isnt it?? Id like to think so anyhow.
IF the Church would stand up and be the Church that Jesus intended it to be, instead of all these 32,000 differant cults, we would see these kinds of miracles.
Look at the miracles that the apostles did after Jesus. Jesus say GREATER things you will do.Church cant do anything hardly now because it asleep.

Regardless of the crusades, inquisitions, and scandals, there can only be ONE Truth because God can never be the originator of confusion. Every man and woman is obliged to seek the Truth. He who, in this life, refuses to acknowledge the Truth, will be forced to do so in death when it is too late and no amount of remorse is of any use. "Seek and ye shall find", said our Lord. Therefore, he who does not labor cannot, and shall not, dine with the Lamb. For he seeks to enter into eternal life through a back door. They delude themselves, who think that they can enter heaven this way.

The apostle Paul himself acknowledges that Scripture is difficult to understand and is NOT to be privately interpreted. Therefore, Christ could not have left us without a teaching institution, an authority, to instruct and guide us. The guiding authority is the Catholic Church and not the bible. The error, that the bible is the sole authority in matter of faith, originated from Martin Luther, an apostate catholic priest, who started Protestantism. Nowhere in Scripture is it written that Scripture itself is the 'Sole Authority', nor does it say it is 'Self Sufficient'. It is interesting that Luther wrote in his Commentary on St. John,

"We are compelled to concede to the Papists that they have the Word of GOD, that we received it from them, and that without them we should have no knowledge of it at all."

In spite of humbling himself by admitting that he took the 'Word of GOD' from the Catholic Church, Luther, on his own 'authority', removed 7 books from their rightful place in the Old Testament placing them in an appendix. The books are Baruch, Judith, Tobit, Wisdom, Sirach, and 1 and 2 Maccabees. Later, these books were removed entirely from Protestant bibles. He did the same with four books of the New Testament. These books had been in all Bibles for over 1100 years. Likewise, he removed the last four books of the New Testament, Hebrews, James, Jude, and Revelations, lacing them into an additional unnumbered appendix. Who authorized him to remove them?

Throughout Scripture we are admonished, NOT to add to, or to take away from Holy Scripture. The verses which warn against doing this are, Deut 4:2, 11:32, 12:32(13:1), Psa 12:6-7,33:4, Psa 50:16-17, 107:10-11, 119:57,139-140, Prov 5:7, 30:5-6, Jer 23:36, Gal 1:8-9, 1Pet 1:24-25, 2Pet 3:15-16, and of course the verses we are all familiar with from the last paragraph of the Bible, Revelations...

"I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book. If anyone shall add to them, GOD will add unto him the plagues that are written in this book. And if anyone shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, GOD will take away his portion from the tree of life, and from the holy city, and from the things that are written in this book." - Rev 22:18-19

Luther did take away from the Words of GOD.

He rejected all authority of the Church and declared that the Bible was the sole authority. Nowhere in Scripture is it written that Scripture itself is the 'Sole Authority', nor does it say it is 'Self Sufficient'. He did take away from the Words of GOD. Isa 22:20-22, Prov 11:14, 24:6, *Matt 18:17, Luke 10:16, 2Cor 10:8, 1Tim 3:15, Heb 13:17

Martin Luther added the word 'alone' to Romans 3:28. He did add to the Words of GOD.

Martin Luther condemned Church tradition as unbiblical (since he could no longer claim it) thereby negating scores of verses. He did take away from the Words of GOD. 2Thess 2:15

Martin Luther declared good works were useless for salvation (James 2:24-26). He did take away from the Words of GOD.

He wrote pamphlets in which he declared that the Priesthood and the Episcopal Office must be done away with. He did take away from the Word of GOD, which clearly established the Episcopal Office and the Priesthood. Acts 6:5,14:22,20:28, Tit 1:5, James 5:14.

Martin Luther is the first Protestant, and founder of Protestantism. He declared the Bible to be the GOD given 'Sole Rule of Authority', and therefore to be believed. Then he violated his own teaching by both 'Adding To', and 'Taking Away' from the Word of GOD. No one can deny that he did these things, as they are recorded in history books, and in Church records. His actions reek of Heresy and Hypocrisy, and all of Protestantism owes its heritage to the deeds of this one man.

If you are a protestant or so called bible-only believer, then you follow the teachings of a rebel and apostate priest. And rebellion has never been a means of salvation. Satan, the father of rebellion, was kicked out of heaven, along with the apostate angels. Is it not a delusion to think that an apostate priest and his followers, can and shall enter into heaven? Think about it, eternity is too long a time to spend in the worst place south of here, you got only one soul, and there is no second shot. You wanna be ABSOLUTELY certain with your first and only shot.

factchecker wrote:

Instead of fighting with each other, why not try to logically, intellectually and truthfully, argue against what all the non-believing types expose.

Been down that road many times. It's like talking to Karl.

Quote:

We would all embrace your faith, and your faith would not be what is described as closing one's mind to truth and believing in something that you can't prove.

Oh, yeah, I'm holding my breath waiting for that to happen. Sorry that one specific argument with one specific person isn't all-encompassing enough to convert the world.

Open up your own eyes a bit. You have totally misread my intent.

Karl, the Holy Spirit is our teacher, not the catholic church. Geeee

Im just waiting for Karl to began selling off his excess righteousness, in the form of indulgences, to those of us on here concerned they might come up a little short.

Bella. Carole defeats her own claim (at least in my book). Anyone with such a gift from God as a regrown limb would want to show it to the world so they could all believe also. Yet in the photos of before and after, and the one kicking, instead of a skirt or rolling up the leg of her slacks, she covers it. Why? As Sagan once said, "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof" and there is nothing extraordinary in how she attempts to prove her claim.
You might be interested in the blog excerpts below, especially the one about submitting proof to the New England Journal of Medicine. Worth reading the whole thing.

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2007/10/jesus_is_growing_her_a_new_leg.php

Believe it or not, after Carole recovered, she was in another automobile crash five years later, in 1986, suffering a severe neck injury. She also documents a number of other health problems, including a fall that damaged her rotator cuff, a defective heart valve with severe angina, and autoimmune diseases. (For someone so beloved by God, Carole sure does have a lot of bad luck and health problems.)

Even if her leg truly were regenerating, at the rate documented on her website, I can safely (and sadly) conclude that Carole will almost certainly die of old age before she regrows enough bone to mean anything.

Let me ask you something: If you were a doctor, had a patient with a limb that was regenerating 20 years after it had been amputated because of trauma, and had compelling, unequivocal evidence to prove it, what would you do? I know what I'd do. I'd submit a case report to the New England Journal of Medicine! That's what I'd do. If I had the goods that proved it beyond a shadow of a doubt, Carole would be world-famous, and so would I!

If you scroll down the page to the MRI from December 13, 2006 and compare it to the MRI from July 25, 2002 and the X-rays from 1995, you'll see that there really is no significant "regrowth."

If Jesus was responsible for her improvement after each of these illnesses, why is it that He doesn't get the blame for inflicting these injuries and illnesses on her in the first place?

There are now throughout the world more than Thirty-three thousand different denominations, and all of them claim the Bible is their guide and teacher. Are all of them true churches? This is an impossibility. Truth is one, as God is one; and there can be no contradiction. Every man in his senses knows that every one of them cannot be true, for they differ and contradict one another, and cannot, therefore, be all true. The Protestants say the man that reads the Bible right and prayerfully has truth, and they all say that they read it right.

The Episcopal minister, sincere, honest, well-meaning, and prayerful man, reads his Bible in a prayerful spirit, and from the word of the Bible, he says, it is clear and evident there must be bishops, for without bishops there can be no priests, without priests no sacraments, and without sacraments no Church.

The Presbyterian, sincere and well-meaning as well, reads the Bible also, and deduces from it that there should be no bishops, but only presbyters. "Here is the Bible," says the Episcopalian; and " here is the Bible to give you the lie," says the Presbyterian, yet both are prayerful and well-meaning men.

Then the Baptist comes in, well-meaning, honest man,and prayerful too. "Well," says the Baptist, "have you ever been baptized? " "I was," says the Episcopalian, "when I was a baby." "And so was I," says the Presbyterian, "when I was a baby." "But," says the Baptist, "it was done by sprinkling, and that is no baptism at all. Unless you go down into the river, like Christ,it is no baptism." And he gives the Bible for it. "Unless you are baptized over again," says the Baptist," you are going to hell, as sure as you live!"

Next comes the Unitarian, well-meaning, honest, and sincere. "Well," says the Unitarian, "allow me to tell you that you are a pack of idolaters; you worship a man for a God who is no God at all"; and he gives several texts from the Bible to prove it, while others are stopping their ears that they may not hear the blasphemies of the Unitarian. And they all contend they have the true meaning of the Bible!

Next comes the Methodist, and he says, "My friends, have you got any religion at all?" "Of course we have," say they. "Did you ever feel religion," says the Methodist "the Spirit of God moving within you?"
"Nonsense! " says the Presbyterian. We are guided by our reason and judgment." "Well," says the Methodist, " if you never felt religion, you never had it, and will go to hell for all eternity!"

Next comes the Universalist, and hears them talking and threatening one another with eternal fire. "Why," says he, "you are a strange set of people; do not you understand the Word of God? There is no hell at all. That idea is good enough to scare old women and children." And he proves it from the Bible.

Now comes in the Quaker; he recommends them not to be quarreling, and advises that they do not baptize at all. He is the sincerest of men, and gives the Bible for his faith. Another comes in and says:
"Baptize the men, and let the women alone; for the Bible says that unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven. So," says he, " the women are all right, but baptize the men."

Next comes in the Shaker, and says he: "You are a presumptuous people a presumptuous set of people. Do you not know," he says, "that the Bible tells you that you must work out your salvation in fear and trembling? And you do not tremble at all! My brethren, if you want to go to heaven shake, my brethren, shake."

So we see different religious denominations, understanding the Bible in different ways, which is illustrative of the fruits of private interpretation. How would it be with thirty-three thousand different denominations, all claiming the Bible as their guide? Can they all be right? One says there is a hell, and another says there is no hell. Are both right? One says Christ is God; another says he is not. One says bishops are necessary; another says they are unessential. One says baptism is a requisite, and another says it is not: are both true? This is an impossibility; all cannot be true. Who, then, is true? He that has the true meaning of the Bible?. But the Bible does not tell us who that is the Bible never settles the quarrel. Therefore, the Bible is not the teacher.

We Catholics allow that the Bible is the Word of God, the language of inspiration, and every Catholic is exhorted to read the Bible. But, good as it is, the Bible does not explain itself. The Bible is the Word of God, the language of inspiration, but your explanation of this Book is not the language of inspiration; your understanding of the Bible is not inspired for surely you do not pretend to be inspired! The Catholic Church says the Bible is the Word of God, and that God has appointed an authority to give us the true meaning.

Lets take the Constitution of the United States as an illustration. When George Washington and his associates wrote this Constitution as the supreme law of the United States, they did not say to the people of the States: "Let every man read the Constitution and make a government to himself; let every man make his own explanation of the Constitution." If Washington had done that, there never would have been a United States. The people would all have been divided among themselves, and the country would have been cut up into a thousand different divisions or governments.

Washington gave them the Constitution as the supreme law, and appointed his Supreme Court as the supreme judge of the Constitution; and that Supreme Court gives the true explanation of the Constitution to all the citizens of the United States all, without exception, from the President to the
beggar. All are bound to go by the decisions of the Supreme Court ; and it is this, and this alone, that keeps the people together and preserves the Union of the United States. The moment the people take the interpretation of the Constitution into their own hands, that moment there is an end of union.

And so it is in every government, so it is here and everywhere ; there is a Constitution, a Supreme Court as supreme judge of that Constitution, and that Supreme Court gives the meaning of the Constitution and the law.

So our Divine Saviour also has established his Supreme Court, his Supreme Judge, that is to give us the true meaning of the Scriptures, and that is to give us the true revelation and doctrines of the Word of Jesus. The Son of the living God has pledged his Word that that Supreme Court is infallible, and therefore the true Catholic never doubts.

factchecker, you made some excellant points there.Ones I cannot, nor will I try to argue about.

"We Catholics allow " YOU ALLOW?????
I wont type what I really want.

" Are all of them true churches?"

The true church is the BELIEVER, not the building, nor the demonation of someone.Honey, get a clue.
The fake antichrist church is the Catholic Church.

If you are Lutheran, your sect was founded by Martin Luther, an ex-monk of the Catholic Church, in the year 1517.

If you belong to the Church of England, your sect was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534 because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry.

If you are a Presbyterian, your sect was founded by John Knox in Scotland in the year 1560.

If you are a Protestant Episcopalian, your sect was an offshoot of the Church of England, founded by Samuel Seabury in the American colonies in the 17th century.

If you are a Congregationalist, your sect was originated by Robert Brown in Holland in 1582.

If you are a Methodist, your sect was launched by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744.

If you are a Unitarian, Theophilus Lindley founded your sect in London in 1774.

If you are a Mormon - a ‘Latter Day Saint’ -, Joseph Smith started your sect in Palmyra, New York State in the U.S.A. in 1829.

If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your sect to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1606.

If you are of the Dutch Reformed Church, then a meeting in Emden, Germany, in 1571 was your starting point. If you are a member of the Reformed Church in America, however, you recognise Jonas Michaelius as founder, because he started your denomination in New York in 1628.

If you are one of the Seventh Day Adventists, then James and Ellen G. White originated your sect in Battle Creek, Michigan, in 1863.

If you worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865.

If you are a Jehovah’s Witness, then the year 1881 saw Charles Taze Russell found the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania.

If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year in which your religion was born, and to Mrs Mary Baker Eddy as its foundress.

If you belong to a Pentecostal or Charismatic group, then you can trace your spiritual genealogy back to a prayer meeting at Charles Fox Parham’s Bethel Bible College in Topeka, Kansas in 1901.

If you belong to such sects as the ‘Church of the Nazarene’, ‘Pentecostal Gospel’, the ‘Pilgrim Holiness Church’, the ‘Iglesia ni Cristo’ or the ‘Assemblies of God’, your religion is one of the thousands of new sects founded by men within the 20th century.

If you are a Roman Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the year 33 A.D by Jesus Christ, Son of The Living God. The Roman Catholic Church has not changed since that time.

Jesus isnt catholic.

.......blind bella!